沒戰績數據再爆炸也無緣MVP？三雙威少類似06科比大O最多第3-4？

美國JRS之聲

沒戰績數據再爆炸也無緣MVP？三雙威少類似06科比大O最多第3-4？

In the last 34 years, no player has ever won an MVP without a top 3 seeding. Oscar Robertson himself finished 3rd in MVP voting when he averaged a triple double (self.nba)

在過去的34年里，MVP還沒有從聯盟戰績前三之外的球隊產生過。奧斯卡-羅伯特森在他的場均三雙賽季也僅在MVP評選中位列第三。

I keep seeing people here say Westbrook is the frontrunner for MVP when he has a very slim chance based on precedence.

Just wanted make a

PSA so I don"t have to keep reminding everyone.

Another example of the media favouring seeding over performance was in 2006, when Kobe Bryant was playing out of his mind and averaged 35ppg on the 6 seed Lakers, but finished 4th in MVP voting. Steve Nash won that year, averaging 18 and 10 on a 2 seed

我不斷看到有人說拉塞爾-維斯布魯克在MVP中領跑，實際上我認為他只有微弱的優勢。我想廣而告之一下我的看法，以至於不用每天都說一遍。

另一個媒體相比於球員個人表現更偏愛球隊排名的例子是在2006年，科比那年得分爆炸，場均達到35分，湖人排名第六，但是科比在MVP評選中僅列第四，最後史蒂夫-納什憑藉聯盟第二戰績拿到了MVP，他的數據是18+10。

[–]ANeutralOpinion 347 指標 11小時前

To be fair Big Os season was durin the season wilt averaged 50 a game and bill Russell averaged 23 rebounds

平心而論，大O場均三雙那賽季，威爾特-張伯倫場均50分，而比爾-拉塞爾場均23個籃板...

[–]San Diego Clippersantwan_benjamin 245 指標 10小時前

Clarification:

Wilt averaged 50 pts and 26 rbs per game, on a team with 49 wins.

Russell averaged 19 pts and 24 rbs per game, on a team with 60 wins.

Big O averaged 31 pts, 13 rbs, and 11 asts per game on a team with 43 wins.

Russell won the MVP award, with Wilt in 2nd. I think that supports the argument that seeding...or more specifically probably overall wins...is more important than inpidual stats.

With that said, I personally still believe Wilt shoulda won the MVP that year...Westbrook should win it this year...and Kobe shoulda won it back in 2006.

澄清一下：

張伯倫場均50分26籃板，球隊49勝；

比爾-拉塞爾場均19分24籃板，球隊60勝；

大O場均31分13籃板11助攻，球隊43勝；

最終拉塞爾贏得了MVP，而張伯倫排第二。我想這支持了樓主的觀點，也就是排名——或者更確切地說——聯盟第一戰績比個人數據重要。

儘管如此，我個人仍認為那賽季張伯倫應該得MVP，2006年MVP應該是科比，而今年應該是威少。

[–]Raptorsmad-one 103 指標 9小時前

I believe Russell won it over Wilt because players voted for MVP back then and Russell was more liked.

我相信拉塞爾在MVP評選中戰勝張伯倫是因為當時的球員評選MVP的時候拉塞爾佔上風。

[–]Celticsteh_noob 57 指標 9小時前

partially true. While Russell was more popular, the players had no problem voting for Wilt two years prior, nor later on in his career.

差不多吧，儘管拉塞爾更加受歡迎，球員們在兩年前以及之後的投票中對張伯倫的投票也沒吝嗇。

[–][GSW] Calbert Cheaneyswollencornholio 11 指標 7小時前

Plus the Celtics went 7-1 vs The Royals and 6-4 vs the Warriors.

值得一提的是凱爾特人對辛辛那提皇家隊（大O所在球隊）的戰績是7-1，對勇士隊（張伯倫所在球隊）戰績是6-4。

[–][LAL] Luke Waltonrjvir 34 指標 7小時前

It"s odd how no one wants to acknowledge the possibility that Russell could have actually been more valuable than Wilt and the voters got it right.

After all, the players of that era are the ones who actually watched and played in the games, rather than just reading basic stat sheets 50 years later.

But since they don"t agree with us, they just had to be corrupt!

我很奇怪為什麼沒人好奇拉塞爾到底怎麼比張伯倫更有價值了，現在只有選票能告訴我們。

總之，那個時代的球員們親眼見證了兩位巨人的比賽，他們比我們這些50年後只看數據的鍵盤俠們更有發言權。

[–]HawksSpeedRacing1 12 指標 5小時前

I"m not saying that the players back then are or are not right because I have never even seen a full game from that era, but did the All-star voting for you this year really inspire confidence in players to vote correctly and seriously?

我不是說那時候球員投票不李菊福，因為我確實沒看過那個時代的比賽，但是今年的全明星投票里的球員投票情況給你們信心了嗎？

[–]CelticsChairman_Zhao 130 指標 12小時前

Can someone explain this media voting thing? Like, the media clearly considers Westbrook a top 2 candidate for MVP, yet people think they"ll just be like "Lol jk, seed not high enough." Are there members of the media that just flat out don"t talk that are going to swing the vote away from him or do I have an incorrect definition of the term "media"?

有人能解釋一下這個「媒體投票」的事兒嗎？比如說，媒體顯然認為維斯布魯克是聯盟前2球員，然而人們可能會說「呵呵，球隊戰績還不夠班」。有媒體一句話也不說就是不把票投給威少嗎？或者我對「媒體」的定義理解有誤？

[–]RocketsBalls_4 24 指標 12小時前

It"s like Curry/Harden in 2015. Harden had a great season with crazy stats but Curry and the Warriors couldn"t be stopped and a successful season is defined by winning a title. Hard to define "value" but after the All Star Break, winning definitely becomes more valuable to voters.

這很像庫里與哈登在2015年的狀況。哈登擁有一個完美賽季，數據爆炸，但是庫里和勇士不可阻擋，並且拿下總冠軍。很難界定「價值」的意義但是在全明星之後，戰績顯然在投票者心中的分量更大。

[–]Cavalierstyler9090 420 指標 12小時前

I feel like we get this post and then a subsequent "What Westbrook is doing is historic" post every hour... Can we give it a rest?

我已經感覺到了SHH的腥風血雨，比如每小時都有「威少正在創造歷史」之類的帖子出現…大夥能歇歇嗎？

[–]Spursdanielbauer1375 3 指標 11小時前*

With Durant out, what else is there to even talk about?

杜蘭特已經退出競爭，其他還有什麼可討論的嗎？

EDIT: FWIW, I was trying to be sarcastic.

[–]Cavaliers BandwagonStubbula 69 指標 11小時前

Don"t let Durant being out distract you from the fact that the Warriors blew a 28-3 lead in the World Series

別讓杜蘭特出局的事實蒙蔽了你，勇士對強隊戰績28-3。

[–]pev2 69 指標 12小時前*

There were 9 total teams in the NBA when O averaged a triple double, I don"t think that note about the Royals being 3rd in the standings is comparable.

Overall, you"re right, it"s always a 3 seed, but back in 61 I don"t think 3 was impressive (out of 9 teams). It"s even possible being 3rd hurt his chances at MVP that year.

Edit - Per some of my replys I think OP may have been implying what I said above, and I misunderstood. If so, my bad disregard.

大O三雙賽季NBA只有9支球隊，我不認為皇家隊排第3的事實在MVP評選中的作用對現在的情況有參考價值。

總之，你是對的，總會有第三名，但是1961年的第三名並沒有什麼說服力，沒準正是這第三名在MVP評比中拖了他的後腿。

編輯：我的回復可能是因為誤會樓里的幾位了，如果真的是這樣，我很抱歉。

[–]NBACaptainHawkmed 40 指標 11小時前

And Westbrook"s team is currently 11/30

I think people are just trying to say team record has always mattered in MVP voting, triple double or not

威少的球隊如今11/30

我想大家想說的就是球隊戰績在MVP評選中更重要，而個人戰績並沒什麼用吧。

[–]Charlotte HornetsBURRITO_JONES 29 指標 12小時前

54 wins seems to be the more modern barometer, set by Nash winning in "06. This is why I think Westbrook isn"t getting the award. Not to mention Harden"s Rockets are on pace for a 15-16 game turnaround. Tough to top that plus his elevated numbers.

54勝像是一個MVP硬指標，這是從06年納什獲得MVP開始的。這是為什麼我認為威少拿不到MVP。而哈登的火箭隊的戰績相比15-16賽季可是峰迴路轉，並且他的個人數據也有提升。

[–]Kingsbraydenator13 35 指標 11小時前

This is the main reason why I still stick by my idea that the MVP needs to be split into 2 categories. MVP and Most Outstanding Player. Westbrook is doing incredible things this year and deserves to be recognized as the player with the best performance, but its entirely possible he"ll get snubbed because the Thunder aren"t going to be a top seed.

這也是為什麼我認為MVP評選應該分為兩個類型：MVP（最有價值球員）和MOP（最出色球員）。維斯布魯克這賽季的表現稱得上是表現最佳的球員，但是雷霆的戰績可能讓他無法觸及獎盃。

[–]Raptorsschoffb 30 指標 11小時前

This would be awesome. I don"t see how LeBron can"t be a lock for MVP if things keep going how they are this year, and I can"t stand the dude. But you take LeBron off the Cavs, they aren"t winning the east, they aren"t getting

Le

Savvy Vets for goofy cheap contracts, they"d likely be about where the Raps/Wiz are right now, a clear tier below true contenders. Which isn"t a huge fall in terms of seeding, but at the end of the day it"s about winning a championship. Take Westbrook out of OKC, they"d plummet to the bottom, but they aren"t contenders with him, so what real value does he bring in? However, what he"s doing is absolutely batshit crazy and it"s a blast for everyone to watch, and is definitely historical.

For me, MVP candidates should come from contenders, MOP candidates from anywhere in the league. And that"d leave my MVP picks between Harden, Kawhi and LeBron.

這將會很激烈。如果勒布朗-詹姆斯和他的球隊的表現持續下去的話，他還是有機會爭奪MVP的，而且可能性很大。如果你把勒布朗從騎士隊拿掉，他們不可能衝出東部，他們也不可能用如此廉價的合同簽下這些球員，他們大概會處在猛龍/奇才的位置，比真正的強隊第一檔。在排名上可能不會下降太多，但是最終的總冠軍可就沒戲了。如果把維斯布魯克從雷霆拿出去，他們馬上就會聯盟墊底，但是即使有威少，他們也不是總冠軍競爭者。所以他的價值似乎就沒那麼大了。當然了，他的表現確實讓大家覺得瘋狂，他絕對是在創造歷史。

對我來說，MVP應該從總冠軍級別球隊中選出，而MOP可以從任何一支球隊選出。因此我的MVP會在哈登、倫納德和勒布朗三人中選出。

[–][NYK] Lance ThomasZenenx 25 指標 12小時前

-I keep seeing people here say Westbrook is the frontrunner for MVP

Do i browse the wrong /r/nba all day ? Wtf ?? all people say on here is Harden is surefire MVP.

「我不斷看到有人說拉塞爾-維斯布魯克在MVP中領跑。」

是我的打開方式不對嗎？我看到的都是說哈登已經鎖定MVP啊。

我們的公眾號：ChinaReddit，還處於成長之中~，微博：虎撲JRS字幕組~

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