詹姆斯也帶不動的稀爛陣容？存在的！騎士03-10年大追溯！

運動 03-06

美國JRS之聲

Why were the Cavaliers unable to put a strong supporting core around LeBron between "03-"10?

為何騎士在03-10年間，沒能圍繞詹姆斯打造一套強力的陣容？

I"ve never really understood how the Cavaliers are currently a massive FA destination (DWill2 , Bogut likely, Love resigned) because they have LeBron. Why wasn"t that the case between "03-"10? How come the Front Office wasn"t able to put anything remotely resembling a championshop team around LeBron?

我一直不理解，為什麼有了詹姆斯，騎士成了現在自由球員嚮往的球隊（簽下德隆，博古特，續約樂福）？而在2003-2010年間，管理層為什麼沒圍繞詹姆斯引援，組成一支有爭冠實力的球隊呢？

[–][OKC] Steven Adamslegendariusss 259 指標 2 天前

Lebron now is different and also has a much bigger say than he did back then. LeGM is both a meme but not really a joke at the same time

詹姆斯現在在騎士話語權不是當年可以相比的。『詹經理』這個稱呼不僅僅是調侃，更是對騎士現狀的反映。

[–]LukeBron[S] 36 指標 2 天前

Did the Cleveland F/O / Dan Gilbert just not value him at all back then?

難道是因為當時丹·吉爾伯特沒這麼重視詹姆斯？

[–][OKC] Steven Adamslegendariusss 136 指標 2 天前

Nah just bad decisions and Lebron not having the same pull in the league that he does now. Sure he was MVP but he wasn"t goat calibre and hadn"t won shit. FAs are jumping at the Chance to play with him now

不，詹姆斯在當時並沒有像現在一樣，受聯盟力推。確實，他是MVP，但並不是聯盟第一人，也還沒有奪冠。如今，自由球員們都想趕緊抓住和老詹一起打球的機會。

[–][NBA] LeBron JamesInterspaceAlien 66 指標 2 天前

and i think just as important as not being goat caliber yet, he wasnt mature in the way that he is now. i really think one of the big draws for these FA"s that want to play with him is the environment that hes able to create by being a great leader. that took time to cultivate.

我想，和他不是聯盟第一人一樣，當時的詹姆斯並不像現在這麼成熟。德隆，博古特來騎士的一大原因就是詹姆斯是一個出色的領導，可以讓身邊的人變得更好，這樣能力的培養需要時間。

[–]CavaliersCGracchus 143 指標 2 天前

Bad FO decisions from "sure we can trust Carlos Boozer" on.

騎蜜：制服從組信任布澤爾開始就做了一堆錯誤的決定。

[–][NYK] Qyntel WoodsBlacramento 63 指標 2 天前

It"s crazy that the arguably the Cavs best draft pick from LeBron to the Decision was either Boobie Gibson or Anderson Varejao, both second rounders (another second rounder, Danny Green, had the best career of the three IMO but not with Cleveland)

But the Carlos Boozer debacle, Dejaun Wagner"s deteriorating health, and the drafting of Luke Jackson were, in my opinion, the three main catalysts for LeBron"s lack of a bonafide supporting cast his first time around

太令人吃驚了，從狀元秀選中老詹到2010年的『決定』之間，騎士選中的新秀就是吉布森，瓦萊喬之流（都是二輪秀）。對了，另一個二輪秀，丹尼·格林，應該是這三人中生涯成績最出色的了，但高光時刻並不是在騎士。

[–][SAS] Tim Duncanrattatatouille 25 指標 2 天前

The best players from the 2004 Draft were all off the board by the 10th pick which Cleveland had, but they could have picked: Kris Humphries, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith (!), Jameer Nelson among others.

2004年，騎士擁有10號順位選秀簽，但是到第十順位的時候當屆最好的幾個球員都被選走了。亨弗里斯，艾爾·傑弗森，約什·史密斯，JR·史密斯，尼爾森。

[–][POR] Wesley MatthewsOwenRey 75 指標 2 天前

They tried. Just gave contracts to the wrong people and it didn"t work out. Plus the culture of the NBA has changed with people actively trying to play with LeBron now

制服組儘力了，只是簽下的球員效果都不好。

另外，現在NBA的氛圍變了，球員特別熱衷於在詹姆斯身邊打球。

[–]CavaliersYourMajesty90 83 指標 2 天前*

Same reason the Kings couldn"t put talent around Boogie or Pelicans around AD.

Lebron hadnt proved he had what it took to win championships yet. Not to mention he never had a good coach. Big FA weren"t stepping into that situation.

Nowadays Lebron is a 3x Champion and it"s a well known fact that he elevates everyone around him to another level.

Also, leading your team(s) to 6 straight finals with a 7th practically in the bag also helps.

Success is very very attractive.

就像國王沒法圍繞考辛斯引援，大牌球員不會去擁有戴維斯的鵜鶘一樣，當時的詹姆斯，從來沒有證明過自己有足夠的實力獲得總冠軍。更不用說他都沒有一個好的教練了。大牌球員不願意來趟這個渾水。

如今，詹姆斯坐擁三座總冠軍獎盃，並且證明了他可以將身邊的球員提升到另一個高度。

另外，連續六進總決賽，連續第七次總決賽也是即將收入囊中。

冠軍總是那麼有誘惑力。

[–]CavaliersGroundhogNight 11 指標 2 天前

Dan Gilbert bought the team in 05 and LeBron left in 09. So I think that turbulence contributed. Gilbert didn"t know much yet about owning an NBA team. We had a not so great GM. We spent money in dumb ways to get old old old free agents and not actual impact players. It"s been an incredible difference in the front office, the coach, and the attitude.

05年吉爾伯特買下騎士，09年詹姆斯離開。所以我認為是那幾年的混亂導致騎士引援失敗。吉爾伯特並不清楚怎麼經營這麼一支球隊，沒有好的經理，花了大錢在老將身上，而不是在真的能帶來改變的球員身上。管理層，教練之間，以及整體的態度，展現出了出奇的不一致。

[–][SAS] Tim Duncanrattatatouille 58 指標 2 天前

LeBron got good right away; they only had like two years in the lottery after he joined. The two years they were in the lottery with LeBron had them pick Luke Jackson 10th in 2004 and they didn"t have their pick in 2005.

They also did try to bring in talent; they rather notoriously signed Larry Hughes to a big deal which looked fine at the time but looks increasingly dumb now given that Hughes was a ball dominant non shooter. They also passed on a deal to get Amare Stoudemire in 2010 all because they liked JJ Hickson more.

詹姆斯剛來就表現很好。騎士在得到詹姆斯後只有兩年樂透區的機會。04年，他們用10號順位選了盧克·傑克遜，05年，他們沒有首輪簽。

騎士管理層確實也做過努力，他們簽下了拉里·休斯，現在看來，這真是一個愚蠢的決定，因為休斯需要持球，而不是一個射手。但是在當時看來，確實不錯的交易。

他們也試圖交易來斯塔德邁爾，但是不願意用希克森做籌碼。

[–][BOS] Marcus Smartgbeckwith 33 指標 2 天前

They did NOT reject the Hickson for Amare deal, they OFFERED it and the Suns rejected it. This might be the most widespread basketball myth right now.

騎士沒有因為不願意出希克森而否決斯塔德邁爾的交易，騎士提出了交易，但是被太陽拒絕了。這可能是至今流傳最廣的謠言了。

[–][MIA] Dwyane Wadeinsustainingrain 50 指標 2 天前

I mean all of the successful early LeBron Cavs teams (07, 09, 10) were top defensive and rebounding teams. They weren"t star studded but they weren"t awful like r/nba would have you believe either

詹姆斯初期的騎士成功的幾個賽季（07，09，10），騎士都是頂尖的防守強隊，籃板排聯盟前列。雖然並不是明星雲集，也不想這個論壇上說的那麼不堪。

[–][SAS] Tim Duncanrattatatouille 21 指標 2 天前

Those early Cavs teams were built like AI"s Sixers, come to think of it. They got a veteran defensive big like Ben Wallace and they surrounded their superstar with defenders. The problem was that Cleveland had no offense beyond LeBron and they weren"t exactly an elite shooting team.

Today"s Cavs aren"t as good defensively (they were good last year and this year is a step back defensively) but they have much better shooting nowadays.

那時的騎士有點像艾弗森的76人。他們有防守中樞老將本·華萊士，他們聚集了一幫以防守著稱的球員在詹姆斯身邊，問題是除了詹姆斯之外，沒有人有自主進攻能力，他們也不是一個很好的投射球隊。

現在的騎士，防守不如當年（去年的防守很棒，今年有所退步），但是投射能力更強。

[–][GSW] Draymond GreenChubbsDaddy 13 指標 2 天前*

They are a destination because they won the championship. Deron and bogut both fill a void for the cavs (backup pg and a true center...Tristan is like 6"9 lol). But in reality, ignoring those 2 going there now, its not like theyve been getting free agents out of no where. Lebron brought his miami people. The cavs traded for shump jr and love. Why wouldnt you re-sign with a team destined for the finals?

During the first lebron phase, they drafted poorly and their free agents were old washed up guys that previously were stars (shaq, big ben, jameson), and they didnt pan out. Deron and bogut kinda fit that mold too actually, but the difference is the cavs already have a roster filled with talent due to the period of sucking when lebron left and they got 3 #1 picks (kyrie bennett wiggins) and a couple lottery picks (dion tristan). The front office has done a good job in the shump/jr/korver acquisitions. But besides that its just getting to pick early in the draft multiple times makes a team have talented people. Thats what lebron came back to, and thats why the team has a lot of assets.

If boozer would have stayed then things might have been very different. The fact is those teams WERE good. They just underperformed in the playoffs and the teams that beat them were either *河蟹* (magic) or better (celtics).

德隆，博古特的到來因為他們有機會獲得總冠軍。他倆都填補了騎士的空缺，德隆作為替補控衛，博古特作為真正的中鋒（現在騎士中鋒湯普森只有205cm）。

除了這兩人以外，並不是說其他自由球員都是突然冒出來的，詹姆斯從邁阿密帶來了他的夥伴，騎士交易來香波特，Jr和樂福。

如果有機會加入一支打總決賽的球隊，為什麼不呢？

在騎士1.0時期，他們的選秀很差，來的自由球員也都是過氣的球星（奧尼爾，大本，賈米森），事實證明，這樣沒法奪冠。德隆和博古特特別適合這支球隊，但差別是現有的騎士陣容，已經足夠的好，擁有很多有天賦的球員。這得益於老詹離開的幾年間，他們獲得了三個狀元簽（歐文，本內特，維金斯）以及一幫樂透新秀（維特斯，湯普森）。管理層在交易來香波特、JR，科沃爾的交易中也表現出色。最重要的是，在10到14幾年間的選秀，騎士得到了很多高順位的機會，並選中了很多人才，這也是詹姆斯回來的原因。

但是如果布澤爾留下來的話，事情會完全不同。事實上，那支騎士隊很好，他們僅僅是在季後賽沒有發揮好，或是因為遇到了更好的球隊（凱爾特人），或者是因為『河蟹』（魔術）。

[–][CHI] Michael JordanBlackMathNerd 27 指標 2 天前

Of course they weren"t awful.. mainly because LeBron"s the best at getting the most out of his talent, and because he"s fucking LeBron who I don"t think will ever finish under .500 again.

But don"t be fooled for a second and think that they had the most quality support around LeBron.

是的，當時的騎士不差，主要是因為詹姆斯盡情展現著他的天賦。我不認為有詹姆斯的球隊，勝率會在50%以下。

但是，同樣不要認為騎士在詹姆斯身邊，配置了很好的幫手。

[–][CLE] Kevin Lovequentin-coldwater 17 指標 2 天前

Name the second best player on each of those teams and tell me with a straight face that any of them isn"t worse than the third best player on any championship contender this year.

那時騎士第二好的球員並不比和今年爭冠球隊中第三好的球員差勁。

[–]FriendlyNeighborCIA 19 指標 2 天前

No, the "06 - "10 were legitimately awful teams without LeBron. Worst in the league level. He anchored them on both ends in 2009 and 2010 as well.

不，合理的說，06-10的騎士，如果沒有詹姆斯，就是聯盟墊底的球隊。2009年和2010年更是詹姆斯在拖著球隊。

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